Ethan Miller - Getty Images
Robert Guerrero appears to have taken the lead in the May 5 Mayweather sweepstakes. (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
A May 5 fight between WBC welterweight titlist Floyd Mayweather Jr and Robert Guerrero is in the final stages of negotiation, says Raymond Markarian of The Sweet Science, and the fight could be announced this week.
Guerrero and his PR team have been pushing extremely hard for the opportunity, but I'm going to be completely honest, and I mean this with legitimate respect to Robert Guerrero: I don't think anyone cares about this fight.
Guerrero (29-1-1, 18 KO) is a good fighter. He's very talented, and I think he has the frame and the size to handle a jump from 135 to 147, even considering he hasn't fought since last April.
But here are my problems:
Simply put, I don't think he's deserving or ready for this fight, and I believe he's a far less interesting proposition than Canelo Alvarez, and I can guarantee the fight does much lighter business, because Guerrero not only isn't a big star, he's not a star at all.
Now, let me also say this. I truly do admire Robert Guerrero gunning for this fight, and I am entirely certain that Guerrero wants it because he thinks he can win, and because he wants to prove himself. Guerrero has had real life intervene in his career so many times that I think at 29 in March, he's ready to just put up or shut up at the top stage of the sport. Mayweather was open, Guerrero is a Golden Boy fighter who won't want "big money," and he went for the fight. If he does get it, then good for him, and best of luck to him.
But no, I don't think this is a really good fight, I don't think it's a good fight, or a pretty good fight. I believe Mayweather wants this fight because he thinks it's going to be easy.
And it might be. As good as Robert Guerrero is, we have no idea, really, just how good he is, or if he's even remotely in Mayweather's league, because he's never fought close to that level. Furthermore, coming off of a shoulder surgery, with 13 months out of the ring by the time he would step in against Floyd on May 5? Not a great idea if you're looking to book a competitive fight. A great idea if you just want a payday and almost certain victory on your way to a stint in the clink.
As much as this could eliminate Canelo Alvarez, look at it another way. Floyd wants to fight twice this year. He's said that repeatedly. So he can fight in May, with Guerrero, and save Canelo for September 15 or a November/December date.
Manny Pacquiao has of course just said that he wants Mayweather next. But as interesting as his quotes were, I don't think any of us figured it would happen on May 5. And it's not going to. What was interesting there was Manny putting it all on Arum (and Team Mayweather), but now nobody has to worry about that, because Mayweather's team is going forward without it, which you can't blame them for doing right now, because Arum made it clear he wasn't going to negotiate.
Again: This isn't official yet, and it could still wind up being Alvarez or someone else. But right now it looks as though Robert Guerrero is in the lead to land the Mayweather fight on May 5.
0 recs | 191 comments
I don't think the Pac fight will happen
Probably Guerrero and then Canelo in September.
Wouldn’t it be awesome if Guerrero took out Mayweather, I’ll eat my hat if it happens but the internet might explode
IRodC - January 9, 2012
Yes. And Robert Guerrero can be very, very good. He’s uneven, is what he is. But if he’s on his game, a win is unlikely, but not impossible.. And what a landscape changer that would be.
BoxAnne - January 9, 2012
Eh
I am going to have a hard time getting excited for this fight. Guerrero is not a welterweight, and will be out of the ring for 13 months after having rotator cuff surgery. This is going to be tought to pay $65 for, but I’m sure I will anyways.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
PPV if it goes down?
I certainly hope not. Primetime on HBO. This fight sucks.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Yes it will absolutely be on PPV. There is no way in hell you will ever see Floyd Mayweather on regular HBO again. Even if the PPV flopped with like 300,000 buys, there’s way more money in that than on normal HBO.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
And they would have to pay Floyd an ungodly amount of money out of the annual boxing budget which is impossible.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Yeesh….
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
If this fight happens Mayweather better fight twice this year
J Theory - January 9, 2012
Or else what?!
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Or I will give him the stink face
J Theory - January 9, 2012 via mobile
I really think he will — and it’s why I think this Guerrero fight really could happen on 5/5. Canelo can happen later, or maybe an Ortiz rematch if Victor beats Berto again in February. Who knows?
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
An Ortiz rematch? Ugh. At first they were recycling each other’s opponents. Now they are just going to recycle their own. Though to be honest I wouldn’t mind Pac-Cotto II or even Marquez IV.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
He'll hype this as a tune up for Pacquiao
The ONLY reason Guerrero might get picked over Canelo, who’s a bigger draw, more raw, and brings in a ton more money, is that Guerrero is a southpaw and Canelo isn’t. Doesn’t keep this from being awful though.
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
Seriously what would be the over/under for number of punches that entire fight for Guerrero? 50?
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
We all saw what Marquez wasnt able to do
And Guerrero, at best, is a poor man’s southpaw Marquez.
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
I was just thinking about this exact comparison, but then told myself “no, that would be ridiculous.”
DrRck - January 9, 2012
Sorry, I'm not buying this story at all.
If this truly is chess, not checkers, there is no way Mayweather will get the public behind him by saying he wants ‘the biggest fight possible’ while having the benefit of Arum keeping his own foot in his mouth just to forfeit the game now. Just straight up hand Top Rank an easy out?
Not buying it.
Pac has just come out with a statement today over at Philboxing.com saying he wants Mayweather next but his ‘promoter picks the fights’ (whatever that means). Floyd’s team is gonna wait for the final word from Arum/Pac before making the final move in this round. Guerrero may be an alternate for an alternate, but THE fight? Did I mention that I don’t buy it? This reeks of Eric Morales/Spadafora/blah/blah/blah all over again.
battlestar - January 9, 2012
It’s not chess. This entire sport is checkers. And a lot of the time they start playing Connect Four because checkers gets confusing.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
This is more like 52 card pickup
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
Boxing in a Nutshell.
Hahaha.
BangBangLampley - January 9, 2012
Hell, the promotion of boxing right now is Pong from Atari
but the deeper skill can come from the manipulation of the public. The real successful promoters know this. Tell you a bunch of lies and have everybody in the room going along with those lies. The ones that count, who knows better, is in a position to shine a light on those lies keep there mouths shut because if they don’t, all there little privileges they’ve built up throughout the years (of ass kissing) comes crashing down like a house of cards.
When the public catches on and now DEMANDS for a particular product, and such a demand emboldens the ‘people in the room’ to voice that demand, with little fear of reprimand by the
stoogespromoters because of the light shown….man it makes for interesting, albeit at times frustrating, theater.There is no way Mayweather will come out of this looking anything other than a complete dumb-ass if he makes this move so hastily. For a guy who is the highest paid athlete in the world (in a supposed dying sport no less), I’ll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to matters of dollars making sense.
battlestar - January 9, 2012
Nice!
jhf884 - January 10, 2012
DO NOT WANT
So much do not want. Incalculable amounts of do not want.
If this happens, and I guess it might, Mayweather deserves some scorn. Sure, maybe Arum’s the stumbling block on a Pacquiao fight, but if you really claim to be fighting the best, why not Canelo, Sergio at a catchweight, Cotto, hell even Amir Khan?
AndrewDM - January 9, 2012
I don’t even think mayweather can hype this fight enough with his mouth and possible ess talking. #1 fighter in the world (arguably) vs …up and coming prospect? Does Guerrero still qualify as such?
Krimson - January 9, 2012
Guerrero is a two-division titleholder and a good fighter. He’d be my #3 lightweight in the world right now but he’s in rankings limbo between divisions with the injury preventing his last fight. He’s more than a prospect, but he’s not known.
A disturbing amount of the Twitter reaction has seriously been, “Who the fuck is Robert Guerrero?”
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
And for the answer to that question we will turn to the latest edition of HBO’s 24/7.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Guerrero would make for a fantastic 24/7 with his backstory of injuries and his wife’s battle with cancer.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
Yes at least the episode explaining his wife’s battle will be interesting. He doesn’t exactly seem like a truckload of charisma so it will be interesting to see how the rest of the show goes. Not to mention they will say approx. 1,047,678 times that Floyd is going to prison.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Guerrero is likeable, but not interesting. I really think they should considering cutting 24/7 down to two episodes. Just make them 1-hour episodes and go deeper into a few stories than covering all this “Now look at Manny Pacquiao joke with his pals. Isn’t that charming? Now he’s making them fight like some kind of freakshow operator. Ha.”
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
I agree with that entirely. Cotto-Margarito 24/7 was really good because it was more brief and had a lot of content packed into 2 episodes rather than diluting everything into 4.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
But how many times do people wanna see the opponent more than the wanna see Mayweather, the spectacle. I DON’T think that he can sell this fight seriously. And he’ll overwhelm Guerrero with his media hype.
Krimson - January 9, 2012
I think he is a quality fighter. He isn’t very exciting though and he is coming off injury. That’s my biggest problem with this fight.
RRod806 - January 9, 2012 via iPhone app
This would be a joke defense
And I wouldn’t buy it no matter how good the undercard is. Canelo would be about 10 times better, as would Peterson or even Khan. Mayweather fighting a featherweight? Screw him.
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
I was gonna wait until it got made official, but I was thinking about undercard: They can’t make a good one. All of Golden Boy’s action fighters are fighting too close to the date. Your options would boil down to:
Jessie Vargas vs someone
Adrien Broner vs someone easy if he beats Eloy on 2/25
Seth Mitchell showcase?
Abner Mares vs Vusi Malinga? (if that fight has to happen, they gotta put it somewhere)
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
But need I list the awful PPVs I've bought over the last few years?
Hell, I actually PAID for Haye-Valuev, Adamek-Estrada, McCall-Oquendo, Khan-Barrera, Klitschko-Chambers, Barrera-Fana, Valero-Pitalua, Pacquiao-Solis and others. I wouldnt pay a dime for this crap. If it’s a PPV, this will be the second biggest joke in PPV headliner history, after Mayweather-Gatti (which I also paid for) where at least Gatti was a big name action fighter. I have no interest in watching Mayweather jab someone to death who is naturally 3 or 4 weight classes smaller than he is.
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
McCall-Oquendo? May God have mercy on your soul.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
We had a BLH SUMMIT for McCall-Oquendo. I got it free from GFL and a few people figured, “Fuck it,” and we all watched that on a Tuesday night (or Wednesday, whatever it was). Great fun.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
Of all the bad PPVs, you forgot Jones Jr./Hopkins II!? Or did you avoid that?
Dafs - January 9, 2012
I managed to avoid paying for that one
Brickhaus - January 10, 2012
i really like Guerrero but to add to the fact that he isnt a top name in boxing yet. he is also coming off of an injury. this could make out to be a mid fight flop where it gets called because of a re-injury.
RRod806 - January 9, 2012
If this happens
I’m very happy for Robert having met him a couple times at the gym he trains at
he’s one of the coolest guys you’ll ever meet and you can call me crazy but I give him a chance against Floyd although the fact that he’s had a long layoff between fights because of injuries worries me
49erEmpire - January 9, 2012 via mobile
Im in the UK. No way in hell i am staying up untill 5am to watch this fight!
TheBod - January 9, 2012
Seriously, I don’t care what either Manny or Floyd does at this point. As far as I’m concerned they’re both retired from boxing. Seriously, we’re gonna get Mayweather-Guerrero and Pacquiao-Cotto II? It’s a joke. If these two don’t fight each other, I could care less about whatever vanity cash cow exhibition matches they engage in.
They’re retired.
SilverLaker - January 9, 2012
I hope they go full bullshit and we get Mayweather-Guerrero and Pacquiao-Peterson
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
Pacquiao/Ricky Burns
Shitali Klitschko - January 10, 2012 via mobile
I think they Will sell this fight
But not entirely because the main event. I’ll bet they put together a super under-card that might include Canelo. Personally I would rather see Cotto or Canelo but keep your eye out for the under-card.
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
Well Canelo has problem being on undercards because he feels he is a megastar so it would likely have to be split-site if they did that just like on Mayweather-Ortiz.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Let's just get this over with
How about Mayweather-Gamboa, Mayweather-Donaire or Mayweather-Mares? Mares is with GBP, just won a tournament, and comes to fight. Make it happen!
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
I’m trying my best to start a twitter movement by directing #NoToGuerrero related tweets to @OscarDeLaHoya
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
and we're backing it
Everyone with Twitter, get that moving.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
Done.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
Done.
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
Done.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Way ahead of you
Krimson - January 9, 2012
Will they direct deposit Floyd’s winnings to his commisary or just pay him in postage stamps and soup packets?
Im_a_fun_haver - January 9, 2012
God I can't stand Bob Arum
William_H_HOLLA - January 9, 2012
i can assure you this will not be a popular choice
with the mexican fans. no way do we support this fight on cinco de mayo. i will not buy it nor go see it. if canelo fights it will be the biggest party ever
el javi - January 9, 2012 via Android app
Im Mexican
I support it and will pay for it or might even go to Vegas and watch it live
49erEmpire - January 9, 2012 via mobile
shhh
In Rainbows - January 9, 2012
Seriously
The same complaints we have about Floyd-Guerrero can be said for Floyd-Canelo
Nobody is happy unless we see Floyd-PacMan or Floyd-Martinez and I’ve come to accept we won’t see those fights
49erEmpire - January 9, 2012 via mobile
1. Robert Guerrero has never fought over 135 pounds.
2. Robert Guerrero has not fought in a year (13 months by May 5).
3. Robert Guerrero is coming off of shoulder surgery with no fight before.
None of these things can be said for Canelo Alvarez.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
He did fight Casamayor at 138 and I can see if you don’t consider that a fight, because it wasn’t.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
OK nitpicky.
1. Robert Guerrero has never fought over 138 pounds.
Still not true for Canelo.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
Well I was trying to find Guerrero’s best win and was reminded about this travesty of a fight. Now you can share my pain.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
But he had a no contest against Salido!
Oh wait, he lost convincingly and had it turned into a no contest for very dubious reasons.
Brickhaus - January 9, 2012 via mobile
not real mexicans from mexico
el javi - January 9, 2012 via Android app
You guys are messed up
Let Guerrero get his shot at Floyd, if you don’t want to see it don’t order it we all know Arum is being a dick and won’t let PacMan fight him and Robert has as good of a chance against floyd as Canelo has
49erEmpire - January 9, 2012 via mobile
Problem is it’ll make numbers for the simple fact that people wanna see Mayweather lose. Mayweather fans + Mayweather haters riled up over the shit talking for 4 months = Bank.
Krimson - January 9, 2012
Floyd is the #1 P4P fighter in the world (#2 at the worst). Guerrero is a good guy, but he’s also never held a legitimate title above 130 pounds. He’s going to go up to 147 to fight Floyd? At least Canelo wouldn’t be coming in as horribly undersized.
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
This fight absolutely awful. This isn’t even the best smaller than 147 GBP fighter (Mental Khan) and Guerrero has just one victory over 135 and it was a complete snoozer against Casamayor.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
We can demand a better product
So if I don’t like this fight, I’m gonna let it be known. But if it does get mad, I definitely wont pay for it.
erod - January 9, 2012
For some reason, all my tweet aren’t showing up at #NoToGuerrero
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
what's your twitter handle?
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
@jazstudio
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
They’re showing up for me
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
Guerrero-Mayweather is a horrible fight, what a joke
mambocowboy - January 9, 2012
I wonder if they will have a face off. Can’t imagine it being anything but artificial tension.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Yeah. Like the tension Victor was trying to create. LOL
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
To be honest we’ve just about run out of decent challengers for floyd. The top light- welters are all taking it in turns to show us theyre either a bit shit or a bit stupid (Alexander, Maidana, Kahn}. Ortiz had his shot but is apparently mentally unstable and the Pacman fight wont happen until theyre both 40 and skint. Theyre are 1 or 2 names that would probably make better fights but im at the stage now where I’m just happy to see a nice bloke get paid
whypunchrabbits? - January 9, 2012
Not to sound like a jerk but I don’t want to pay $65 or whatever just to see “a nice bloke get paid”. Give me a real fight that is at least passably interesting.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Dude you are a fan not a financial backer. Perfectly acceptable opinion.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
don’t get me wrong i don’t think its a good fight but i’m just struggling to care about floyd or Manny now. It’s been goin on far too long its just drained all the interest out of me and i dont see many other fights out there that would make me care again.
Floyd’s going to fight someone. Floyd’s going to beat someone. And that someone is goin to make a lot of money. May as well be Guerrero
whypunchrabbits? - January 9, 2012
I'm a nice bloke
So is Brick. So is Scott. Ted Sares is a bit hard ass but still a good guy. Matt miller, Waldo and Oli…all nice blokes.
But no one wants to see us fight. Now if they paid me ’opponent money lile they are paying Robert “nNce Guy” Guerrero. I would accomadate tehma nd figt all of the nice blokes named.
In other words, Who give a rat’s pattoooty abot nice blokes. This is the hurt business
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
Once again I’m really not saying this is a good fight. And if their were loads of other great fights out there that Floyd was ducking it would be a truely shocking fight. The thing is, out of all the names mentioned for him the only ones i think have any interest in are Cotto, Martinez and Manny.
Now the Cotto one is a terrific scrap but theres a big doubt about it with his links to Top Rank. Of course it could be made if Floyd offered him big money to leave Big Bobbo but why should he be chasing fights at this stage?
The Martinez fight isn’t going to happen and I don’t think you can blame either man for that. Either the little man gives up too much size to a very good big man or the big man kills himself getting down to a weight the little man can handle.
I can’t be arsed to even talked about the Manny fight.
I couldn’t care less about any other opponent and dont think there’s a cat in hells chance any other opponent beats floyd (to be fair i dont think those 3 stand much chance either) so any other opponent is basicly trading a loss for a payday. If someones going to get paid i’m just glad he seems like a decent fella.
I really, truly, honestly am not saying i like this fight. but in the giant steaming shit sandwhich known as the Floyd and Manny show you’ve got to look for the positives.
whypunchrabbits? - January 10, 2012
Seriously, there are so many people I'd rather see Floyd face than Robert Guerrero.
An Ortiz rematch is more appealing; a fight against Miguel Cotto; Canelo Alvarez; heck, even Marcos Maidana appeals to me more. At least when Floyd fought Marquez he was taking on an overweight lightweight who’d fought Manny Pacquiao and was a top p4p fighter. Robert Guerrero just isn’t and he’s probably the most underwhelming B-side of a PPV ever. He’s up there with Joshua Clottey at least.
This just speaks volumes about Mayweather’s desire for the remainder of his career. It’s totally about squeezing however many paydays he can out of his last few years, without too much concern for the opponent. I mean, Robert Guerrero has all of one win above 130 pounds. Gee, this fight sucks…
Oli Goldstein - January 9, 2012
Clottey was much more legit than Guerrero is for this fight. He was at least a top 5 welterweight, and had given Cotto and Margarito tough fights. He wasn’t the best option for Pac, and laid a huge egg in the fight but at least he was a real welterweight.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Oh yeah, I agree there. He was still Joshua Clottey though.
Oli Goldstein - January 9, 2012
Indeed
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
He'd hold his own against most and kick many others asses
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
We’ll have to agree to disagree, then (well, actually you don’t have to do anything).
I’ll watch, partly because I think that Guerrero is good enough for this, and partly because I think that Alvarez would get shredded by Mayweather, and has zero chance of even looking good.
Maybe no one with the possible exception of Pacquiao has a chance to actually beat Mayweather, but Guerrero is a solid, smart fighter. Alvarez is a good young fighter, but he doesn’t have even close to the skills and adaptability to do well in this kind of fight.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
He’s going to try and pressure Floyd but he’s smaller and rusty. You can’t see that right or check left clocking this dude?
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
Rust will be a real worry, no doubt about it.
But I think that Alvarez is a baby; promising, yes, but still a baby. He’d get toyed with. Guerrero won’t.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
Seriously how is Guerrero going to get any sort of momentum in this fight? He has no power at 147, he’s not that fast, and he is coming off an incredibly serious injury. Its like LSU playing a football team from Div. III, it is just sad.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
We can’t even say he’s got no power at 147, seeing as he hasn’t even fought near there. The set-up to this fight is that bad.
Oli Goldstein - January 9, 2012
Actually, I think he’s fast enough.
I think he’s also, in an unrusty state, a very sharp and flexible puncher, with good and sudden body shots and an underrated uppercut.
I’m not arguing that he’ll win. I’m arguing that he’ll give Mayweather much more of a fight than Alvarez can even fantasize about.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
Just watched his highlight on youTube
He’s not fast at all. He seems like a good dude though.
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
His reaction time is very fast, and he counters reflexively and accurately.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
It's all relative
People thought Mosely was fast as Mayweather until they saw him in the ring that night.
Craig111 - January 9, 2012
True.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
I think that Mosley was in fact once upon a time competitive with Mayweather with regard to speed. But he was old and frozen in that fight.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
I don’t even really disagree with you about Guerrero’s talent or anything. I’ve got almost no interest in this fight, but it’s because I don’t think Guerrero is as close to Floyd’s level as you do (or may). I honestly see him being toyed with.
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
I think that the inactivity is likely to kill Guerrero. And I don’t think he’s got any chance. I just think he’s a better all-around fighter than Alvarez.
There. I picked Mayweather. He’s bound to lose now. I’ve scored flat zero in my picks for two years straight.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
Dude have you seen me in the Pick’em game? But I would put a stupid amount of money on Mayweather if this fight happens because it would be free cash.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
I’ll bet my zero against yours. Mine is real, and absolute. You, on the other hand, seem to know something about boxing.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
I might print that out and frame it. Honestly, thank you.
Waldo Rastel - January 9, 2012
I’ve learned a hell of a lot from you. When I’ve even understood you, that is.
DrRck - January 9, 2012
What are the odds
that if this fight takes place and bombs, Arum uses it as evidence that Floyd doesn’t draw and why he shouldn’t get a match with Manny?
John Nash - January 9, 2012
Depends on your definition of bombed. Any ring with Mayweather in it will have a lot of eyes watching.
Actually scratch that. I’m not giving Bob enough credit. He can definitely find a way to stick the boot in to Flloyd whatever happens
whypunchrabbits? - January 9, 2012
This fight
Has potential to be develop into a great story…for Guerrero— both inside and out. I won’t be suprised if Guerrero was the Antonio Tarver to Floyd’s Roy Jones, if you catch my drift.
Either way, aslong as it doesn’t end in a controversial fashion, I’ll be satisfied. Anytime Floyd steps into the ring, regardless of opponent— we are witnessing greatness.
#TeamMayweather
Ryan Tical - January 9, 2012 via mobile
lol
Scott Christ - January 9, 2012
+1
FrontHandMan - January 9, 2012
I thought for a moment this was some brilliant satire…then I saw who it was LOL. Yeesh #ruserious?
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
I loved this post so much I recommended it. Bravo.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
i would prefer guerrero than canelo, he is better fighter, it’s true, he is not famous and doesn’t have a fight in this level, but canelo either, he is champion cause he is a mexican product, one thing i don’t like floyd vs guerrero fight is the fact that guerrero has 13 months out of the ring and that surgery in his shoulder, but he is a great fighter and i know he be more dangerous than canelo….
EL CIERTO (VEN) - January 9, 2012
More dangerous because…of…what?
Because he’s smaller, rusty and coming off a surgery?
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
I'm surprised
That Floyd actually went for a fight with such a no name, non draw in Robert. Anyone with a decent explanation?
FrontHandMan - January 9, 2012
Well, his last 3 opponents were shot Mosley, too-small Marquez, and inexperienced Ortiz. No need to break a winning trend when you can now include rusty cripple Guerrero, keep the theme moving along. Why would he change it? He makes a lot of money on it, and never gets hurt. Can’t beat that for business sense.
BoxAnne - January 10, 2012
It’s very easy to break down fighters after a loss. Mosely destroyed Margarito before seeing Floyd, and Ortiz won a tough fight against Berto. Besides Manny and anyone else at TR, who else could he fight that’s not at a catchweight?
By the way I don’t support the Guerro fight.
Clove_art - January 10, 2012
Yet, Marquez, Mosely, and Ortiz had draws in the sport. Some more, some less. Guerrero is someone i never thought Floyd would even consider. Especially because he takes his PPV numbers everywhere he goes.
FrontHandMan - January 11, 2012
besides a floyd – guerrero fight, would sell much more than clottey and margarito vs pacquiao, bob arum is not an expert, and all the thing he said is careless, he just care about the money… he should retire from boxing and talks to sulaiman to do the same…
EL CIERTO (VEN) - January 9, 2012
If there’s one thing Floyd loves…it is super low risk fights against smaller opponents! #moneyphone
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
Please give examples… This is gonna be good.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Hatton, Marquez, and nowwww Guerrero!!!! I hope that was enjoyable.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
highly entertaining
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
Hatton was undefeated and Manny caught him a year later. Marquez was in the top 5 p4p list. And at 38 now still gives Manny problems. How were they low risk?
And Floyd walks around at 148-150… Hatton had to lose weight for just about every fight. Hence his nickname Ricky Fatton and Marquez wanted to come up.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
So? That doesn’t make him larger than he actually is. That fight was a joke from the moment it was signed. I thought so and a lot of other people (ask Scott). And of course he wanted to move up, he got a career high payday.
styles make fights. And maybe Floyd is just better than Manny. I am not in bed with either fighter.
Well he gained fat. He became grossly overweight between fights. It doesn’t make that fight any better that he had to cut weight. He had to cut so much because he got fight not because he’s a particularly large dude.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
Let’s not forget that Floyd couldn’t even be bothered to try and make weight for Marquez.
Brent Brookhouse - January 9, 2012
That’s what a lot of people forget. Marquez essentially fought a full-fledged welterweight against Mayweather, not a 144 catchweight fight like the Pac fight. Not that it would have changed the outcome, but that is the truth.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Hatton may have been undefeated but looked like donkey crap in his only welterweight fight up until that point against Luis Collazo. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. is undefeated. So what?
Why does it matter if Marquez was top 5 p4p? If a guy is smaller then he is smaller regardless of how high he is ranked p4p. So can Mayweather fight Donaire because he is simnply top 5 p4p? Of course Marquez wanted to come up in weight. It was a massive payday for him.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
agree on all points.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
apparently we posted similar stuff right at the same time
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
C'mon....
If size is such an issue then Manny wouldn’t be where he his now.
If Donaire wanted to fight Floyd at welterweight that’s his business. Hatton is still overweight between fights, that’s still bigger than 150.
Floyd didn’t beat these guys on shear size and strength. He beat them because his is better them, point blank. Don’t get mad if Marquez normally fights at 135 and agreed on the catchweight, he could have said no if that was an issue. And once again Marquez killed that argument a couple months ago against Manny.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Remember that time Floyd agreed to a 144 pound catchweight then willfully disregarded it and came in at 146 to give himself an EVEN BIGGER edge?
That actually did make me mad! :)
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
C’mon tho 2 lbs. And if u watch the fight, Floyd stayed outside for all twelve rounds. He didnt KO Marquez, he did pop-shot him all twelve rounds tho. If there was a weight advantage after hydration Floyd didn’t really use it.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Yes the 2 pounds. That makes it even worse. Floyd could have easily cut those two pounds. It’s the principle.
yes and it was an incredibly lame fight. Mayweather played it VERY safe against a clearly outgunned opponent. It was a bizarre fight all around and one of Mayweather’s worst moments.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
Competitively lame yes. But it did produce one of Floyd’s greatest highlights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6C-Rj2lp6U
Peep around 6:05.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Must be hard to see either those drawers on your head.
Try voice over/closed caption, you can but the software.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
What?
I’m sorry, are you upset again?
Clove_art - January 10, 2012
I don’t get half of this argument. Nobody is mad at Marquez for wanting the biggest payday of his career. People get upset when Mayweather makes fights like that where the odds are heavily stacked in his favor.
We also get upset when Manny fights burnouts like Mosley. It’s not only Mayweather. He’s just one of the two most high profile examples.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
Ok I give u that.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Manny is a different person from Marquez. Some guys can move up better than others. That’s nothing new.
So you do think it would be cool if Donaire fought Mayweather?
I don’t care how overweight Hstton gets between fights. He was claerly better at 140. Just because you get fat in between fights doesn’t mean that you will magically perform better at higher weights.
Yes, Floyd DID beat these guys basically because he is just better. I will never deny that. But just because Marquez did good against Pac at 144 doesn’t automatically mean it was an even fight against Floyd when Floyd can’t even make weight for it.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
I didn’t say Hatton is better heavier. I’m just saying he is probably naturally heavier than Floyd. Which negates the whole smaller argument.
I do agree Donaire is too small for welterweight. But I don’t manage him. So I couldn’t care less.
I mean Floyd paid the penalty, and they could have called the fight or whatever. This was after a 2 year layoff and Floyd hasn’t done that since, I believe. You can make a case that those 2 lbs. made him less vurnable to Marquez’s punches or whatever… But I just don’t see it as that much of a factor that could tip the scales in Floyd’s favor to win.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
I think Floyd would have won regardless of if he made weight or not, honestly. But he hasn’t missed weight again just because he hasn’t tried to fight below welterweight again. And, frankly, everyone doubts he ever intended on making weight in the first place because he knew they weren’t going to call off the fight at the weigh-in.
But yeah I definitely agree that Floyd wins regardless.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
No it does not!! When they are both in shape Floyd is just bigger. It doesn’t matter if Ricky is bigger when he is fat. Why can’t you comprehend that?
Nobody is asking your opinion of his management! We are asking if you would think Donaire-Mayweather would be a good fight. That’s it. Your stake in his career has 0 to do with it.
Floyd would call that penalty insurance on an investment. Floyd has also not fought at a catchweight since that fight. And no I agree it was not a big factor. That’s what makes it so ridiculous. You really think Floyd had trouble getting his weight down? He’s always in shape. He CHOSE not to weigh 144 pounds. Pure disrespect for Marquez and paranoia on his part.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
Yeah Hatton’s multiple chins are definitely not natural. That’s like saying James Toney is naturally as big as Lennox Lewis.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
The chins are more like now. Yes he does live up to his name now.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
He wasn’t that fat back then…Yeesh.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
He would get up to like 180 or 190 between fights. I remember him being on Friday Night FIghts as a guest when he was still active. I was shocked at how much blubber he had.
Kory Kitchen - January 9, 2012
Then that is a amazing.
Clove_art - January 10, 2012
I can’t believe Floyd beat a light heavyweight #GOAT
Sammlung - January 10, 2012
Donaire and Floyd is a bad fight. But none of the guys u listed are at Bantumweight either. Yeesh.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
I don’t even know what you are arguing anymore. I give up. You win Cloveart.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
And Guerro isn’t official yet. just like Manny-Marquez IV.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
True, but if it does go down I agree with 90% of people here that it’s a shit fight.
Sammlung - January 9, 2012
I do too. I’m not for it either.
It’s just Floyd does fight good competition, normally. I can’t support the money team on this one. Maybe they are pissed about all the Arum talk and they want do what they wanna do. Or this can be another tactic to make TR look bad, I dunno.
It is a shit fight.
Clove_art - January 9, 2012
They make TR look good. And accurate
Because it proves all along that Floyd never wanted to fight a TR fighter.
BTW, He hasnt fough one fighter NOT GB.
Picking GB’s scraps is classic Floyd.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
At the same time, Manny cleaned out the welterweight ranks at TR himself.
Clove_art - January 10, 2012
and Mosely.
BoxAnne - January 10, 2012
Out of curiosity
How many times has Mayweather not had a reach advantage in his career? Any fights other than Oscar, Corrales and Mosley?
Brickhaus - January 10, 2012
I don’t see anyone out there beating Mayweather currently, so when I see him fight I’m mainly looking for
a) someone young enough to be in prime physical shape
b) someone with legitimate power
I just want to entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, the opponent might have a chance.
Ortiz ticked these boxes and was making an entertaining fight until we crossed over into the twilight zone. I would’ve been perfectly happy watching Mayweather pick Ortiz apart through the middle rounds.
Whilst Guerrero is young and fresh enough for me, the 13 month shoulder lay off just really makes it a ridiculous fight for me.
dmdm - January 10, 2012
And it's not like he's ever had much power
Even at featherweight
Brickhaus - January 10, 2012
Just have to say....
I told y’all this the other day. The word was Guerrero before and it is Guerrero now. And fights do not suddenly materialize. Floyd’s team and GB have obviously been discussing thsi well before the May 5th date was tentaively and publicly put on reserve by Floyd
The way Vegas works is that about Ten families run the place. They all know each other. The casino owners, Steve Wynn, the Fertittas (Station) the duBoefs, Arum, Maloof, etc. They own properties together, they use the same architects they are each other’s best men and brides mates, their kids go to the same private schools. in other words, they talk.
Floyd v Guerrero was Floyd’s call, before his announcedd desire to fight at the MGM. All the rest was BS. Yes, he sex-texted duBoef and said what fine people Todd and his sister Dena were and that they cpold would things out, jut the two of them. But he didn’t…because he never intended to.
It was RG or some other alternative all along…and it was never his deseire to fight Pacquiao.
All he had to do was tell Todd, let’s mak it happen…but he didn’t say one word.
So now we have another easy payday.
Enjoy.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
You also said it would be Morales. I’d wait for an official announcement before patting myself on the back. Glad to see this rumor though has invigorated you to drop the “neither side wants it/a pox on both their houses” facade after one whole day though.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
In the last half decade Manny has at least fought once outsiide of TR (ie ricky Hatton)
Floyd NEVER fights anyone but GBP. talk about a company man.
Morales was indeed a candidate before RG but much pricier
RG is another GB easy payday.
Try losing the hate. Or maybe not, you are my favorite hater. Like child’s play…you are easy to prove but have nothing to say of substance
But bring it on.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
Thanks once again of informing me of widely known facts irrelevant to the discussion. I had no idea what the promotional affiliations were of Pacquiao and Mayweather’s recent opponents.
Floyd’s been rumored to fight Spadafora, Malignaggi, Maidana, Morales, and Matthew Hatton since he came back. Given the fact that none of those shit fights ever happened, it seems to me a wait-and-see approach is more sensible in this situation. And yes, Mayweather-Guerrero would be a shit fight.
BTW, perhaps one of the reasons Floyd never called up anyone at Top Rank post-sentence-delay is because Daniel Weinstein told both Golden Boy and Ellerbe that the company was not interested in the fight at this time.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
Perhaps. You ann always keep hope alive.
BTW, that was a very very impressive list,
Spadafora, Malignaggi, Maidana, Morales, and Matthew Hatton.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
And none of those happened. Pacquiao’s been linked to icons like Judah and Cintron within the past year, yet for some reason I think you’d object to anyone actually trying to make a point with those names.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
In the meantime.... One fighter answers soberly
MANILA, Philippines — Filipino boxing icon Manny “Pacman” Pacquiao will tell his promoter, Top Rank chief executive officer Bob Arum, that he wants to fight undefeated American boxer Floyd Mayweather Jr. next.
Pacquiao and Arum are set to meet Tuesday in Sarangani to discuss the Filipino boxer’s next fight, reportedly scheduled for June.
“I’ve said this over and over before, and I’m saying this again. I want Floyd Mayweather Jr. to be my next opponent,” Pacquiao said in an interview with PhilBoxing.com’s Eddie Alinea.
“I haven’t changed my choice despite recent developments,” he added.
Pacquiao confirmed late last year that negotiations were ongoing between the two boxers’ camps, but those discussions were put on hold after Mayweather was sentenced to 90 days in jail for a 2010 domestic violence charge.
The American’s jail sentence was postponed until June, however, so he can fight on May 5 against a yet to be announced opponent.
But Mayweather is no longer included in Arum’s list of potential opponents for Pacquiao. The Top Rank boss had instead put Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Marquez, Lamont Peterson and Timothy Bradley, Jr. in the shortlist.
Pacquiao said he will “insist that the fight with Mayweather be given the preference than the four others in the list.”
He earlier said that there are no more problems from his camp regarding Mayweather’s demands of random blood and urine testing.
“I will abide by his demand for drug testing. I am even agreeable to getting a lesser purse, just so the fight would push through,” Pacquiao said.
“In other words, as far as my side is concerned, there will be no problem.”
Not ducking anyone
The Filipino fighter denied that he was “ducking” any fighter, after some boxing observers noted that he was also partly to blame if his fight against Mayweather – long thought to be the richest fight in boxing – will not push through.
“It’s not really fair for some quarters to blame me if in the long run, the fight wouldn’t push through,” Pacquiao told Alinea. “I have also been saying many times before, I fight for the fans. I want the fans to be happy.”
“Whoever says I’m ducking this fighter or that fighter doesn’t know me, or just wants to put me in bad light,” he added.
“I never dodged from fighting anybody. If I did, I won’t be where I am now.”
Arum’s job
At the end of the day, Pacquiao said his job is to fight and his promoter’s job is to choose who he fights.
“Whoever the fans want me to fight, I will face him atop the ring. I don’t choose the fight. It is my promoter who does (that) because it’s his job,” Pacquiao said. “My job is to fight, everybody must realize that.”
Pacquiao emphasized that he will insist on facing Mayweather, but it will be Arum’s job to negotiate with the Mayweather camp.
“If we agree that I will face Mayweather, then my promoter will talk to his counterpart in the Mayweather camp,” Pacquiao said. “When Arum sits in the negotiation table, he will be laying on the table all the conditions we want.”
*But Pacquiao warned that negotiations may once again hit a snag, since Mayweather “has no promoter.”
“He negotiates by himself. So if the fight won’t be realized, it’s no longer because of me,” he said.
Mayweather works with Golden Boy Promotions to promote his fights, but he is not under contract with GBP.*
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
And as Scott’s post below notes, this kind of undermines that whole “Pacquiao’s the true boss of who he fights” narrative you’ve been spinning for the past 2 weeks.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
it's nuanced.
manny wants what roach, arum and todd want….but red the last lines. he know sthat unless Floyd wants it….forget it
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
He also apparently knows he doesn’t have final say on who his opponent is. But of course, everyone around Manny wants the fight more than anything else and is doing their darndest to make it and everyone around Floyd just sets up obstacle after obstacle.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
Stop wasting your breath
I have learned nothing.
Try interviewing someone inside who knows.And get back to me
I can read pap on an infinite number of blogs.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
I’ve learned equally little from your inside information, and in fact, most of what I’ve read from your ostensibly privileged position is likewise no different from the same pap on blogs and boxing message boards. Simply assuring everyone over and over again that Arum and DuBoef are great dudes does not constitute an argument that’s the slightest bit compelling, nor do your hundreds of weak appeals to authority.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
I never said great dudes
I said the facts.
and many of the blogs with less access and open sources reported similarly….although most know jack squate as te barriers iof ntry are virtually zero and their access even less.
i know there are always two side or more to evry story and would love to speak with schaaefer privately. I hope that happens some day.
the problem is that GB DOES NOT speak for floyd so what they say between fights means less and/or very little at best. They do not have contacts with either fighter
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
BTW, weinstein never confirmed
What Schafer and Ellerbe claimed he said in amail. Schaefer in particular was bent out of sahoe that arum was considering giving Marquez, a fighter for who he lost to TR because he could not deliver what he wanted (manny) was considering and still may be …giving boty MP and JMM an even bigger payday and live gate that their third fight.
How do you spell boo fucking who? S O U R G RA A P E S…and believe a scorned promoter watching his former star being offered not one but two opportunities to make a fortune.
Ellerbe has zero cred and no balls after his “no negotiations” negotiations. Talk about about a eunich.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
Well, Arum used Weinstein’s name in vain during the first round of negotiations and the judge had no problem clearing up his lies. And if Ellerbe’s lie during the second negotiation inexcusable and removes any credibility from what he has to say, then certainly Arum’s bullshit account of that mediation should cast a similar pall over everything he has to say henceforth. Schaefer’s also said he’s willing to release the e-mail if he gets permission, but it seems no one from Top Rank is interested in calling his bluff.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
He'd release it if he had it
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
Why doesn’t Top Rank call him on it then? Schaefer said he’d release it only if Arum said he could. What does Top Rank have to fear if they know he doesn’t actually have anything?
bachwards - January 10, 2012
You are wasting your breath
In the mean time, you like Ellerbe.
I like Michaels Woods, who is a good well connected reporter.
Here the latest.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. is this close to naming a foe for his May 5 scrap.
According to Raymond Markarian, writing for TheSweetScience.com, a source informed him that negotiations for a Mayweather-Guerrero bout are in their final stage.
Mayweather advisor Leonard Ellerbe had said the tussle could be announced later this week.
Elllerbe said it..Must be credible, no?
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
I never said anything about liking Ellerbe at all or that he’s credibe (jndeed, was merely pointing out that Arum shoud be seen as uncredible as him by your own standards), but congrats on constructing another strawman. Ellerbe said Mayweather’s next fight will be announced this week; nothing in the Markarian piece, which is Woods’ source here, connects anything Ellerbe has said to Guerrero specifically.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
No he wouldn't
99% chance it’s subject to a nondisclosure agreement, and if he releases it, he could get in deep doodoo.
Brickhaus - January 10, 2012
So would Teddy Atlas
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
There was a name named here, unlike with Teddy Atlas and Tim Smith’s “sources.” Not comparable situations.
bachwards - January 10, 2012
I said that Michelle Obama blew me in the White house gym.
There’s a name. Two names
Prove it.
Winberg probably sent an email…but I would be that it did not say what Schaefer and Son interpreted it to say.
in the meanine, that is now why Floyd has chose another easy payday without even trying to get a decent opponent. Absolutely nothing.
He could have fought…..let’s see. Ortiz, Morales, Khan, and a whole panoply of fighters. He could have told GB to sign Bradley and he would fight him. But naaaaw. That Weinstein email threw a wrench in his ’ambition’s so now he has to fight….let me suppress my laughter lest I be unable to type……Roberto’ The Ghost" Geurerro.
No other options, I guess. Bob Arum made him do it.
LMFAO
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
Another completely disanlogous example pulled out of thin air. I guess it’s quite hard to see any real difference with regards to alleged communication between public figures via a neutra source and simply making shit up in the comments section of a blog.
Well jeepers, maybe someone from Top Rank should call Schaefer on his bluff then or correct what he said, rather than responding by spinning tales of Floyd being in the midst of negotiations on his own or Manny’s cut needing 2.5 years to heal. That would seem to be a slightly better PR move if the truth was on their side anyway.I already said Guerrero was a shit fight and never tried to make an excuse for it. The specific point about Weinstein (which you’ve somehow managed to lose again in your efforts to shovel more and more tangential or even completely irrelevant things into the discussion) was that there might be a reason Floyd wasn’t calling Top Rank to discuss the fight, specifically connected to Top Rank being the ones explicitly informing Golden Boy and Ellerbe that they’re not interested. If that’s the case (that is, if they’re the ones who expressed initial disinterest this time around) it seems to me they should also be the ones to initiate any discussion rather than sitting around going (in your narrative) “Aw shucks, Floyd doesn’t call and when he does he’s not begging for a fight!”
bachwards - January 10, 2012
Floyd did call TR
What is so hard for you to understand. He texted and called. He said GB has no skin in his game.
If TR responds to GB , they give GB leverage, possiblylegal, to say that they are ’negotiating" with and on behaf of Floyd.
TR has no intention GB unless Floyd saiys the opposite.
Arum is a lawyer whose partners can and have eaten Gb’s lunch bvitually every time they have mixed it up. The legal team at TR dos not want yo give GB any opportunities to claim the they have negotiated for Floyd and/or ar thus deserving a slice of the action.
You can get your GBP pennant and wave it in your bathroom waering Oscar’s drawrers….but all your moaning about TR is still not making a dent in their growing share of market space in boxing.
I have never seen you critiue the ‘other comapny’ so when you grind on TR and TR alone, you don’t inform and/or illuminate squat.
You barelya muse me.
pakinpower - January 11, 2012
No shit, my point was why is it on Floyd to specifically contact Top Rank about making a fight? Why is his calling only to bitch them out for trying to schedule a fight at the MGM and not about making a Pacquiao fight, specifically after Top Rank themselves claimed disinterest in it, such a mystery to you?
TR has no intention GB unless Floyd saiys the opposite.
Ellerbe likewise said that Golden Boy was authorized to negotiate for the fight, or does he not count as a representative of Floyd too? Oh wait, I forgot that since he lied during the second negotiation he a completely discredited source of information. The same standard however mysteriously does not apply for all of the bullshit Arum spoke during the first negotiation.
Boohoo. How cute that you’ve accused me of being a Golden Boy shill; the “I know you are but what am I” defense is always evidence that one has a sound argument. I’ve ripped on that company plenty, especially with respect to their nast habit of being connected to controversial decisions whilst talking themselves up as a different kind of promotional company. Oscar is a buffoon and Schaefer lies as much as any other scumbag promoter. Was that good enough for you? Did you ever think though that the more proundounced pushback against Top Rank is perhaps a product of your constant slurping of them?
That’s a shame. Given the comments on the twitter thread today, I’d say your constant double standards, non-arguments, and twisting to make everything look favorable to Top Rank has amused many commenters on this site. Feel free to respond with one of your usual boring and still uninformative claims to access and knowledge.
bachwards - January 11, 2012
Hey...I had fun
But I need sleep.
Please post some dribblemso I can start my day with a few laughs.
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
In the meantime add hennessy to the growing list of endorsement
That hi promoter arranged as a supplementb to his multiple 20 plus million dollar fights. Bad dude that Arum. The baddest in the business
pakinpower - January 10, 2012
WHO IS THE RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER PAY TO WATCH THIS?
quincyte - January 10, 2012
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